Q.
Hey Gary,
...reading through some past posts...karma and reincarnation are some of my favorite subjects of study.
You said in that post:
"Past lives practices have limited credibility for me as one could just as easily be accessing the "Universal Consciousness" and drawing a chance fragment/element from That which has nothing to do with a current particular manifestation which is believing it is reincarnated."
...In Motoyama's book, Karma and Reincarnation, he writes about many spiritual consultations he's conducted for parishioners of his family's Shinto shrine...he says that he "directly communicat[es] with the appropriate manifestation of Higher Being about a specific problem that a parishioner is experiencing" by "unifying with the Higher Being."...By "appropriate manifestation" he may mean what some may consider a "guardian spirit" or some kind, but he does not elucidate. Motoyama feels that a "in a vast majority of cases the parishioner's problem turns out to be have its root in a previous incarnation." ...he intuits that "souls" tend to harbor together across time in what Motoyama calls a "family constellation"...
"As for the present-day relationships, I saw that Ms. Y had reincarnated into the same family constellation. Nakanose had been reborn as her maternal uncle...Her mother in the previous life is her mother again in this one. Her lover was reborn as her older brother."
Michael Newton, also writes of "family constellations"..."soul groups." Newton is well-known for his past-life regression work and he specialized in "life-between-lives" regressions...using hypnosis...Newton also encountered the phenomenon of soul group incarnations.., where a client's close relations had existed with him/her in previous lifetimes, although often times not in the same roles...
...there's no way to prove undeniably that these intuited family constellations are legitimate... Motoyama writes that often times when individuals return to sites where they spent a great amount of time in their past life or lives, they feel a profound sense of familiarity and connection...people improve after Motoyama's consultations...Motoyama gives them specific practices to do to address those issues that are unearthed during a consultation...Newton also reports that his clients heal after undergoing regression experiences and so does Brian Weiss, another well-known past-life regressionist... This does not prove that the information is directly from a past life, but it does point to something other than randomness...
You also mention the "bookkeeping" problem. Haha, for some reason, I don't feel like this problem is that insurmountable. I feel as though the U.C. is pretty powerful and could manage something like this... Motoyama says that the "seeds" of karma are stored in the spirit bodies, i.e. the astral and causal bodies, particularly in the chakras.
G.
As an empirical scientist by training and profession, and someone who is dedicated to a spiritual path that is empirically validated and personally experienced, i don't find "soul groups", "family constellations", "reincarnation" or "karma" reasonable or verifiable, or what is even more important, useful or helpful in living sanely, completely, holistically and happily.
Haven't you ever wondered why, if "reincarnating in family constellations" is so certain, that Newton, Motoyama and Weiss don't all do the same person, but in a blind study and see if they all got the same "constellations"?
A fundamental question is "What is it that wants to be "reincarnated"?" What is it that has this deep longing to believe that karma, sin, good and bad deeds dictate whether we go to heaven or hell, get a good or a bad next birth or spend eternity with a large number of virgins? Is it springing from a frustration with the perceived "unfairness" in this life, and believing that somehow, it will all "even out" in the end, perhaps several lives from now? Why not just get on with THIS life?
What is it that is afraid to just surrender into what is, and just be fully present now, as it is, not as a belief system, but as a recognition that resistance to what is, is a demonstrably poor coping strategy resulting in great distress, frustration, worry and unhappiness?
IMHO, believing in karma, reincarnation or sin does not help one live a better, fuller, happier life, nor does it guarantee better or more moral behavior. One need only to look at the history, or current news, of religions, any and all religions, and see that, to the contrary, all manner of unspeakable atrocities are associated with, and in many cases, facilitated and validated by religious belief.
The folk i know who are really "into" previous lives spend a great deal of time and bandwidth on the concept. If they believe in "family constellations" and knowing their past lives' relationship to everyone in their current life, they are completely unable to meet those folk with anything like an openness to the situation as it is, right now, in this life.
Those closest to them are judged in every minute of their relationship by some story some "medium" told their spouse, lover, father, sister, grandmother, etc. of how they are believed to have behaved in a past life of which they are personally, totally unaware. If the medium then tells them of this believed past life(s), they are then also locked in the same mental paradigm which will continue to limit their openly and clearly experiencing their close relationship.
Hey Gary,
 |
| Motoyama |
...reading through some past posts...karma and reincarnation are some of my favorite subjects of study.
You said in that post:
"Past lives practices have limited credibility for me as one could just as easily be accessing the "Universal Consciousness" and drawing a chance fragment/element from That which has nothing to do with a current particular manifestation which is believing it is reincarnated."
...In Motoyama's book, Karma and Reincarnation, he writes about many spiritual consultations he's conducted for parishioners of his family's Shinto shrine...he says that he "directly communicat[es] with the appropriate manifestation of Higher Being about a specific problem that a parishioner is experiencing" by "unifying with the Higher Being."...By "appropriate manifestation" he may mean what some may consider a "guardian spirit" or some kind, but he does not elucidate. Motoyama feels that a "in a vast majority of cases the parishioner's problem turns out to be have its root in a previous incarnation." ...he intuits that "souls" tend to harbor together across time in what Motoyama calls a "family constellation"...
"As for the present-day relationships, I saw that Ms. Y had reincarnated into the same family constellation. Nakanose had been reborn as her maternal uncle...Her mother in the previous life is her mother again in this one. Her lover was reborn as her older brother."
Michael Newton, also writes of "family constellations"..."soul groups." Newton is well-known for his past-life regression work and he specialized in "life-between-lives" regressions...using hypnosis...Newton also encountered the phenomenon of soul group incarnations.., where a client's close relations had existed with him/her in previous lifetimes, although often times not in the same roles...
 |
| Michael Newton |
...there's no way to prove undeniably that these intuited family constellations are legitimate... Motoyama writes that often times when individuals return to sites where they spent a great amount of time in their past life or lives, they feel a profound sense of familiarity and connection...people improve after Motoyama's consultations...Motoyama gives them specific practices to do to address those issues that are unearthed during a consultation...Newton also reports that his clients heal after undergoing regression experiences and so does Brian Weiss, another well-known past-life regressionist... This does not prove that the information is directly from a past life, but it does point to something other than randomness...
You also mention the "bookkeeping" problem. Haha, for some reason, I don't feel like this problem is that insurmountable. I feel as though the U.C. is pretty powerful and could manage something like this... Motoyama says that the "seeds" of karma are stored in the spirit bodies, i.e. the astral and causal bodies, particularly in the chakras.
G.
As an empirical scientist by training and profession, and someone who is dedicated to a spiritual path that is empirically validated and personally experienced, i don't find "soul groups", "family constellations", "reincarnation" or "karma" reasonable or verifiable, or what is even more important, useful or helpful in living sanely, completely, holistically and happily.
Haven't you ever wondered why, if "reincarnating in family constellations" is so certain, that Newton, Motoyama and Weiss don't all do the same person, but in a blind study and see if they all got the same "constellations"?
A fundamental question is "What is it that wants to be "reincarnated"?" What is it that has this deep longing to believe that karma, sin, good and bad deeds dictate whether we go to heaven or hell, get a good or a bad next birth or spend eternity with a large number of virgins? Is it springing from a frustration with the perceived "unfairness" in this life, and believing that somehow, it will all "even out" in the end, perhaps several lives from now? Why not just get on with THIS life?
What is it that is afraid to just surrender into what is, and just be fully present now, as it is, not as a belief system, but as a recognition that resistance to what is, is a demonstrably poor coping strategy resulting in great distress, frustration, worry and unhappiness?
IMHO, believing in karma, reincarnation or sin does not help one live a better, fuller, happier life, nor does it guarantee better or more moral behavior. One need only to look at the history, or current news, of religions, any and all religions, and see that, to the contrary, all manner of unspeakable atrocities are associated with, and in many cases, facilitated and validated by religious belief.
The folk i know who are really "into" previous lives spend a great deal of time and bandwidth on the concept. If they believe in "family constellations" and knowing their past lives' relationship to everyone in their current life, they are completely unable to meet those folk with anything like an openness to the situation as it is, right now, in this life.
Those closest to them are judged in every minute of their relationship by some story some "medium" told their spouse, lover, father, sister, grandmother, etc. of how they are believed to have behaved in a past life of which they are personally, totally unaware. If the medium then tells them of this believed past life(s), they are then also locked in the same mental paradigm which will continue to limit their openly and clearly experiencing their close relationship.
Finally, what if the mediums are wrong? What if your lover wasn't your grandfather in your past life? What if your mother wasn't your uncle? What if there is no reincarnation? What if you are planning on getting a "do over" in your next life, and there is no "do over"?
How do these concepts work for you now, this very moment, in this life? Do they help, or hinder, your living fully present, openly, and aware to the other? The other changes continuously, hour by hour, minute by minute. How often do you now meet them in the current moment, just as they are, not as how they were yesterday? How can you meet them openly and clearly if you believe that they are unchanged from some imagined previous life, perhaps far back in time?
Hi Gary,
ReplyDeleteThanks for all your thought-provoking questions. I believe as you do that concepts like karma, reincarnation, and sin should not be used a crutches to avoid our experience now. So your questions as to if these concepts work for me is very apt. Karma and reincarnation are currently part of my belief system, but I do not engage them in my practice nor do I use them to tell limiting stories about myself. More recently, I've lost some interest in them as they are not practical at this point. In fact, I'm much more judicious about the books I read now, asking myself "Why do I want to read this book? What am I looking to get out of it?" Many times before it was to garner some semblance of Truth--be it about life after death or whatever--but I see more clearly the futility of that now.
I want to work as hard as I possibly can in this life to practice and realize Truth. My experience may tear down these concepts or may bolster them. I don't know. But your warning to not allow these concepts to be limiting factors on experience is well-taken.
As you note, how people use concepts like these in their daily lives is a different issue than if these concepts have any reality. I'd love to see some kind of rigorous scientific study on this issue. I don't know why Motoyama, Newton, and Weiss never got together. It could be because they are charlatans, were busy in their practices, or didn't have enough confidence in their work to submit to rigorous study. Nonetheless, one thing that seems pretty reliable, based on reports in the works of these gents, is the therapeutic value of "re-experiencing past lives" or praying for the release of "karma generated in a past life." Who knows what She is up to in these instances.
Thanks again.
Jake
Hi Jake.
DeleteThe fact that Motoyama, Newton and Weiss produced some therapeutic value with their work does not validate "re-experiencing past lives". Am sure you are familiar with the placebo effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo) whereby literally "anything" can produce therapeutic value if folk believe it will.
As the wikipedia article states "...a study found that patient recovery can be increased by words that suggest the patient “would be better in a few days”, and if the patient is given treatment, that “the treatment would certainly make him better” rather than negative words such as “I am not sure that the treatment I am going to give you will have an effect”. (doi:10.1136/bmj.294.6581.1200)
There are 191 references in the wiki article on placebos and their effects. One quote is "Sometimes administering or prescribing a placebo merges into fake medicine."
we don't really understand how the placebo effect works; there is even a Program in Placebo Studies @ Harvard. It is as you say "who knows what She is up to in these instances", but IMHO, it doesn't require "family constellations from past lives", unless someone believes it does.
stillness
I didn't consider the fact that the results could be attributed to a placebo effect. Underscores the need for controlled studies to determine specific effects, if any.
DeleteBalsekar had a pretty good explanation on this.. I think the book was "Who Cares". He said no one reincarnates, just consciousness. All is consciousness... so the images from a previous "life" are just concepts pulled from the collective. there are many "Me's" and only one "I"
ReplyDeleteIn the past, when I was in a deep healing process, living in an Ashram, doing inner quest intensives and various other explorations into the psyche, I had many "travels" into past lives, archetypical dream states and various other "imaginal realms". It was what my psyche was doing to make sense of a wild and traumatic life. It felt empowering at the time, and I believe that it was to some degree, as it helped to fill in some of the spaces of the eroded "sense of self" that I was experiencing at the time from a rather painful childhood. I have also experienced family constellations on a number of occasions. It seemed to clear an "imagined" stuck energy pattern. I say imagined, because as I work with Self-Inquiry, more and more, I see that all of the mind states are just states, part of the endless field of the mind-stuff - even though these altered states feel different as they are generated from more of an alpha-state, they none-the-less, at this point are distractions from True happiness that comes from knowing that we are indeed Brahma, the stillness that comes when all of the myriad states of the ego fall away and we realize that we are One with existence. True liberation can only be known when the mind is still.
ReplyDeleteHi Laura,
DeleteA really perceptive and insightful comment. The recognition that "past lives", "imaginal realms", and "archetypical dream states" are all created by the brain to deal with past traumas and a "wild and traumatic life" is a wonderful understanding that not many reach.
If folk can move, as you have, to the recognition through self-inquiry and the falling away of the ego, that we are all indeed "One with existence", then we can finally find the true liberation of a still mind.
It is a great pleasure to work with you.
Gratitude for your open and deep sharing.
stillness
Dear Gary,
ReplyDeleteYou wrote that after death probably we dissolve in infinite Oneness and some pieces of us will remanifest and creat another form with other pieces, but "me" as first person perspective experiencer, that subjective stream of experience dissolve forever in your opinion?
Hi Bart,
Deletemy ongoing experience, given all of the many serendipities of infinitesimal probability and great value that manifest every day, and the precognitions that occur, it is clear that "something" is running things that is far more intelligent, omnipresent, and interconnected than i am. i have found that "my life" runs better w/o "me" in it.
Given our current cosmological research, we know that there is an all pervasive field, called the Higgs field, that can manifest matter as described in the blogpost "How 'consciousness' creates matter...the God particle" @ http://happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2013/02/how-consciousness-creates-matterthe-god.html.
As it is clear that everything in this Field (which is everything) is evolving, it follows that whatever is running things is also evolving, so it then follows that "we" are evolutionary-sensing-experiencing manifestations of the field to allow it to evolve through these "bodies", and all forms and objects.
When these waves that we are, in the infinite Field/Oneness have provided as much useful evolutionary "data" to the Field as they can, then the wave that is called "Bart Lars" just dissolves back into the Field.
The information that the "Bart Lars" wave provided is now incorporated into the aggregate learning of the Field, and there is no "reason" for it to be "tagged" as Bart Lars. The Field continues to manifest waves to solve different evolutionary, adaptive problems with the aggregate learning.
That's only my opinion, of course.
stillness