Big awakening, ego-death, experiences...am i OK? withdraw? healing? a shrink?

This dialogue unfolded after the questioner, hereinafter known as PPKAB (person previously known as Barbara - not her real name) had a dramatic awakening experience as soon as we began working together.  

old what's his name
w/Scotty, Grand Canyon rafting "Yoda"

After the awakening experience, as she was returning home, she "died" on the plane w/almost complete dissolution of who she was.  The dialogue begins after she returns home and is trying to adjust to  experiences she is encountering.  

PPKAB.  great trip to CO...family time...Things feel more normal than ever before, which is refreshing but a little weird...noticing that I have to be "where I am" (mentally, physically, emotionally)...interesting and I'm learning a lot about my habits and patterns...can see how this confuses people who expect something different maybe.

G.  ...going well...the having to be "where I am", is a great sign.  If you are "now, now, now", you really need to pay attention to "now, now, now" which is a good reinforcement.  If you're someplace else, IME, that is usually negatively reinforced rather quickly.

PPKAB.  Reflecting on the pros and cons of my work...10+ hour days, leaving little time for being still...have been waking up early (4 or 5am), which is unusual, and am thinking about meditating then...will make me sleepy later?   funny that time is a construct and yet it seems to influence so many decisions :)

G.  Many/most folk who have a profound and deep awakening find there is a great desire to be alone as much as possible...that may manifest with a going off by oneself, or leaving one's current situation for a while.  

It happened w/Eckhart Tolle (several years wandering, unemployed) ...Ramana Maharshi, (to Arunachala, 17 years in a cave, never "came back"), Nisargadatta Maharaj (wandering sadhu for 8 mos, "awoke", returned to his business, etc.)...a recommendation that was typically given, classically, in India.

IME, worked for a few months...went to India, saw Zen masters, etc. for a year and a half, before reentering full time work as assoc v.p. of research @ large university.

...a normal happening.  honor it...as you are moved, deeply, to do so.  IME, it was impossible to resist as the push was so strong.

re waking up early, with two kids and "big" job...only way i could get my two hours/day of practice in...never worked @ lunch or evenings - something always came up...hours of practice seemed to work out as at least equivalent to hours of sleep - was not a morning person, but became one.

"good stuff"...and "normal", at least for awakening

PPKAB.  thanks gary. very helpful.

PPKAB....great to talk to you (skyping).   As you started asking..."Where is PPKAB?... When is PPKAB?... Who is PPKAB?  Is the PPKAB who did this yesterday the same as the PPKAB that did that today?..." etc, it really put me in a frame to sit.  I had a "useful"...very stable 20-min meditation...using this analysis...stability that arises when I sit is...really peaceful/pleasant and highly energetic (like electricity) in my body. Feels...like my body is an antennae for Good. 

Whereas before...would get all excited about this body state...now just feels like...stability...there, but not a distraction or something I am trying to make happen or not happen...for the first few minutes...am "in control" or "doing something" (...watching my breath, letting non-breath stuff go), but then something else kicks in and it's no longer in my control.

Reading from Krishnamurti's Notebook...on the bus also put me back into a similar frame as the end of our skype...continuing to notice the conflict that arises when I go to work while I would *prefer* to be more still and non-intellectual.

J. Krishnamurti

G. ...experiences you described are a great place to be.  The realization of not being in control is a critical one...is going really well.  Krishnamurti...was very useful to set up my philosophical understanding.

PPKAB ...talking to docs...about the weird fever/cough symptoms...have walking pneumonia!...feeling pretty wiped out. Focusing on resting and letting my body heal itself...interesting to experience these familiar symptoms in a different light!

G.  Listen to "your" body - you even call it "my body", not "me" - big difference...the body has great wisdom and intelligence already installed/Darwinianly-generated and is trying to heal itself...listen to what it wants to do, or not do, and help it fix itself..."focusing on resting and letting my body heal itself."

Who is sick?  Am "I" sick, or is the body?  Do "I" have "walking pneumonia"?

PPKAB.  feeling thankful and chuckling at life's good fortune.   yoga was great... seeing the others with "clean" eyes and open heart...ending meditation could have lasted all night.

...here's something that popped up, from david foster wallace's last book...a brilliant and kind person who flirted with waking up, maybe did wake up, but his heavy intellect (and organic depression) got the better of him.  Read this a few years ago and thought i grokked it from an intellectual standpoint, but man, the teaching just has to be experienced.

David Foster Wallace

first is the original quote from David Foster Wallace; next is (PPKAB's) a variation on the theme...:)

Bliss - a second-by-second joy and gratitude at the gift of being alive, conscious - lies on the other side of crushing, crushing boredom. Pay close attention to the most tedious thing you can find... and in waves, a boredom like you've never known will wash over you and just about kill you. Ride these out, and it's like stepping from black and white into color. Like water after days in the desert. Instant bliss in every atom.

Bliss - a second-by-second joy and gratitude at the gift of being alive, conscious - lies on the other side of fear. Pay close attention to the most frightening thing you can find... and in waves, a terror like you've never known will wash over you and, if you're lucky, kill you. Ride these out, and it's like stepping from black and white into color. Like water after days in the desert. Steadily increasing bliss in every atom.

G...the second "bliss" wins...  

PPKAB...piece on psychosis and trying to treat young people before...full-blown schizophrenia...how similar reported phenomena are to going through stages of awakening...pros and cons of medicalizing such phenomena vs. getting guidance from long-term meditators and teachers...wonder if some people might actually get worse...if they are diagnosed and treated as if they have "pre-schizophrenia".

G. re seeing experienced meditators or psychologists/psychiatrists...IME, "awakening" folk in this situation should see both...worked w/folk...pathologized by the psychological establishment...in deep distress primarily because of the diagnosis...responded well to being worked with compassionately by someone who had been there... 

Suzanne Segal

...famous cases where "awakening" was misdiagnosed by awakening-illiterate psychologists, including Suzanne Segal..."Collision With The Infinite"...psychologists...didn't know what to say...when she saw two well-known spiritual teachers, not mentioned in Wiki article, she was "diagnosed" correctly...began speaking on "awakening"... became a psychologist herself so that she could speak...to the psychological community.

...seeing your priest or minister not like seeing experienced "awakening" folk...many stories, including Mother Theresa's, in which the Church was the problem, not the solution in dealing with nondual awakening. 

...too much to expect all psychologists to experience awakening;...too much to expect all spiritual teachers to be fluent in handling folk who show up who really do need something they can't offer.  (There are now, fortunately, some "nondual awakening" psychologists emerging, most notably Peter Fenner, who does know "both sides", whose workshop i have taken.  There was even a separate "track" at a Science and NonDuality conference for non-dual psychologists which had scores of folk.)  

...IME, both populations, spiritual teachers and psychologists...may be needed... sometimes the neurochemistry has gone awry...working w/the psychologist or psychiatrist...an excellent outcome is possible in which both appropriate (and likely decreased) levels of neurochemical medications, and the work on awakening, optimized the outcome, healing and subsequent recovery. 

PPKAB.  Thanks for this Gary...sharp line...created with modern medicine and psychiatry between "normal" and "abnormal"...most of the fear and anxiety I had...was due to this underlying theme of "are you crazy? is this normal?  what if you lose your mind?  what medical condition can best describe what is happening to you and what is wrong with you?" This theme is so deeply ingrained that it can easily take one by surprise and seem very compelling when it flairs up.