Q. Do i have to do 10,000 hrs of self-inquiry practice and meditative yoga before i get something like "awakening"? That's just impossible in my life w/a job, etc. Isn't there some other way?
G. Yes, there is an easier way than how "i" did it. The "path that is no path" is much better understood now than when i was flailing around. "Progress" is much faster and easier now as it's seen what works/what doesn't.
Here are e-mails from Dominic (real name), who has a 50 hr/wk job, a new baby, 3 yrs of on/off meditation, and has worked w/self-inquiry w/great results. The use of "I" and "i" are his.
Dominic:
Hi Gary,
What a fascinating difference when the small "I" gets out of the way...Two days of very few "I" thoughts. "Who cares?", and "Who am I?" have been the inquiries that resonate with my inner being. "Who cares?" is a great one for me. I can really feel it...felt good all day. Real light-hearted. Smiled, had some fun.
Even dealing with angry customers was not a problem. I actually enjoyed it which is something that has never happened. There was no "I" there to take complaints personal. No "me" to defend. "Work" was so much easier. Communication with co-workers was easier too...the energy in the body and the energy behind no "I" was awesome.
When I talked to people today I looked them directly in the eyes and was absolutely there for them at that moment...I saw those around me for who they really are...No judgments or condemnation. No concerns, worries, or fear. Just people talking. Very nice to feel this way.
I will try and I will try not to continue inquiry. At this moment the I may be still hiding out around the corner. Funny thing is, this little "I" is suddenly not so important to anyone. In fact, no one is here today to even care. "Who cares?"..."Well, I do of course." and "Who am I?" No answer and that is such a nice feeling.
Ideas came into my head...last 2 days. Spoke to my boss about them today and got the "go ahead" to put together a proposal...the ideas would not have occurred with mental "blah, blah" happening.
Having fun with this thing called "life". Not so bad when there is no one to be bothered.
Also, strange things regarding "coincidences" have been happening lately. Almost as if the Universe is attempting to give "proof" via illusion that everything truly is one, i.e. had a thought my wife's sister should get a call from us...Turns out she is having issues... Or I will have a thought and then I will read about it moments later on the internet...not disturbing self-referential thoughts but rather thoughts floating by...Not minding but just observing this trend lately.
Hope all is well.
Dominic
Hi Dominic
Great. Would like to use this in blogpost...would be useful for folk...some indication of how much practice you've done and how much you have been doing @ work to reach this point...
stillness
gary
Hi Gary,
i have been meditating on-and-off for 3 years; 2 years w/o any teacher or guidance. i would just try different things that i heard about from a friend, internet, and reading different books. During my first 2 years of practice i was not persistent and often times i found meditation boring and experienced little "success". The first 2 years consisted of meditating in my room and controlling the breath while clearing the mind of any thoughts. Not sure if that type of meditation has a name.
i would meditate for about...15 - 30 minutes/day for 3 - 5 days/week over the course of the first 2 years...in meditation practice, the mind would only be still for 2 - 3 minutes.
During this last year of practice, you and i began communicating. i found self-inquiry to be much more appealing. i didn't realize i could meditate while walking to work, at work, on the train, at home, eating lunch or any other time during the day when i/me/my thoughts arise.
I always assumed meditation could only be performed while sitting...i do very little sit-down meditation with the exception of before bed and i actually don't sit - I lay down in bed and perform inquiry before sleeping.
Typical day is as follows:
Wake up @ 6 a.m. -- Not much i/me/my until i leave for work.
6:45 a.m. to 7:30 a.m. Walk to the train, ride train to work, walk to work...Perform inquiry when i/me/my occur which is usually the whole way to work.
7:30 a.m. - 5 p.m. working
A typical workday consists of 20% self inquiry, 80% work.
Inquiry during downtime when I am not dealing with customers or helping employees, i.e. 1 minute of inquiry, help a coworker, 3 minutes of inquiry, on the phone with a customer for 20 minutes, go to a meeting, inquiry for 5 minutes while taking a break, review applications for an hour, talk to customers, inquiry for 5 minutes, read emails, inquiry during an email for 2 minutes because thoughts arose, continue reading emails, inquiry for 2 minutes, etc...
Basically anytime thoughts arise I inquire "who am I?"
5pm-5:45 Walk to the train, ride train home, walk home - perform inquiry as thoughts arise.
5:45 - 10pm - Spend time with family. 10 - 20% of time spent in inquiry as needed. Lately things have been flowing well. Inquiry has been running on autopilot but I choose to persist and go deeper until there are no more thoughts.
10 pm Read
11 pm Lay down, perform inquiry.
I have only been this persistent for a month or a little longer. I just made it a point to inquire whenever thoughts arise. Why not?
10 - 20% of waking hours are spent in inquiry.
Bio; 32 years old, married, newborn daughter, supervisor at a small company. Enjoy ice hockey and grilling. 32 years of mental turmoil, always wanting answers, afraid of just about everyone and everything. Strong sense of lack and not being good enough. Things are improving dramatically every moment. Getting stronger in the Self. I feel this now.
Hope this helps some folk.
Happy
Dominic
BTW was interviewed last week (The Illusion of the Self) by Robert Wright on bloggingheadstv.com. Robert is a well-known author; his latest, The Evolution of God, was one of three finalists for the Pulitzer Prize for Non-Fiction in 2010. There's a great video of him appearing on the Colbert Report.
His Non Zero: The Logic of Human Destiny was described by Fortune as one of the "75 smartest (business-related) books of all time". He is the co-founder of bloggingheadstv and writes for The Atlantic, Slate, The New Yorker, The New Republic, etc.
Robert has invited me to meet w/his class next month @ Princeton.
BTW, all of the Dialogues with Dominic are in Dominic's new book "Dialogues with Dominic: A Chronicle of Inquiry and Awakening" along with dialogues that occurred after the posts, and dialogues of Dominic with the editor of the book, who i have also worked with for some time.
G. Yes, there is an easier way than how "i" did it. The "path that is no path" is much better understood now than when i was flailing around. "Progress" is much faster and easier now as it's seen what works/what doesn't.
Here are e-mails from Dominic (real name), who has a 50 hr/wk job, a new baby, 3 yrs of on/off meditation, and has worked w/self-inquiry w/great results. The use of "I" and "i" are his.
Dominic:
Hi Gary,
What a fascinating difference when the small "I" gets out of the way...Two days of very few "I" thoughts. "Who cares?", and "Who am I?" have been the inquiries that resonate with my inner being. "Who cares?" is a great one for me. I can really feel it...felt good all day. Real light-hearted. Smiled, had some fun.
Even dealing with angry customers was not a problem. I actually enjoyed it which is something that has never happened. There was no "I" there to take complaints personal. No "me" to defend. "Work" was so much easier. Communication with co-workers was easier too...the energy in the body and the energy behind no "I" was awesome.
When I talked to people today I looked them directly in the eyes and was absolutely there for them at that moment...I saw those around me for who they really are...No judgments or condemnation. No concerns, worries, or fear. Just people talking. Very nice to feel this way.
I will try and I will try not to continue inquiry. At this moment the I may be still hiding out around the corner. Funny thing is, this little "I" is suddenly not so important to anyone. In fact, no one is here today to even care. "Who cares?"..."Well, I do of course." and "Who am I?" No answer and that is such a nice feeling.
Ideas came into my head...last 2 days. Spoke to my boss about them today and got the "go ahead" to put together a proposal...the ideas would not have occurred with mental "blah, blah" happening.
Having fun with this thing called "life". Not so bad when there is no one to be bothered.
Also, strange things regarding "coincidences" have been happening lately. Almost as if the Universe is attempting to give "proof" via illusion that everything truly is one, i.e. had a thought my wife's sister should get a call from us...Turns out she is having issues... Or I will have a thought and then I will read about it moments later on the internet...not disturbing self-referential thoughts but rather thoughts floating by...Not minding but just observing this trend lately.
Hope all is well.
Dominic
Hi Dominic
Great. Would like to use this in blogpost...would be useful for folk...some indication of how much practice you've done and how much you have been doing @ work to reach this point...
stillness
gary
Hi Gary,
i have been meditating on-and-off for 3 years; 2 years w/o any teacher or guidance. i would just try different things that i heard about from a friend, internet, and reading different books. During my first 2 years of practice i was not persistent and often times i found meditation boring and experienced little "success". The first 2 years consisted of meditating in my room and controlling the breath while clearing the mind of any thoughts. Not sure if that type of meditation has a name.
i would meditate for about...15 - 30 minutes/day for 3 - 5 days/week over the course of the first 2 years...in meditation practice, the mind would only be still for 2 - 3 minutes.
During this last year of practice, you and i began communicating. i found self-inquiry to be much more appealing. i didn't realize i could meditate while walking to work, at work, on the train, at home, eating lunch or any other time during the day when i/me/my thoughts arise.
I always assumed meditation could only be performed while sitting...i do very little sit-down meditation with the exception of before bed and i actually don't sit - I lay down in bed and perform inquiry before sleeping.
Typical day is as follows:
Wake up @ 6 a.m. -- Not much i/me/my until i leave for work.
6:45 a.m. to 7:30 a.m. Walk to the train, ride train to work, walk to work...Perform inquiry when i/me/my occur which is usually the whole way to work.
7:30 a.m. - 5 p.m. working
A typical workday consists of 20% self inquiry, 80% work.
Inquiry during downtime when I am not dealing with customers or helping employees, i.e. 1 minute of inquiry, help a coworker, 3 minutes of inquiry, on the phone with a customer for 20 minutes, go to a meeting, inquiry for 5 minutes while taking a break, review applications for an hour, talk to customers, inquiry for 5 minutes, read emails, inquiry during an email for 2 minutes because thoughts arose, continue reading emails, inquiry for 2 minutes, etc...
Basically anytime thoughts arise I inquire "who am I?"
5pm-5:45 Walk to the train, ride train home, walk home - perform inquiry as thoughts arise.
5:45 - 10pm - Spend time with family. 10 - 20% of time spent in inquiry as needed. Lately things have been flowing well. Inquiry has been running on autopilot but I choose to persist and go deeper until there are no more thoughts.
10 pm Read
11 pm Lay down, perform inquiry.
I have only been this persistent for a month or a little longer. I just made it a point to inquire whenever thoughts arise. Why not?
10 - 20% of waking hours are spent in inquiry.
Bio; 32 years old, married, newborn daughter, supervisor at a small company. Enjoy ice hockey and grilling. 32 years of mental turmoil, always wanting answers, afraid of just about everyone and everything. Strong sense of lack and not being good enough. Things are improving dramatically every moment. Getting stronger in the Self. I feel this now.
Hope this helps some folk.
Happy
Dominic
 |
| Robert Wright Princeton |
His Non Zero: The Logic of Human Destiny was described by Fortune as one of the "75 smartest (business-related) books of all time". He is the co-founder of bloggingheadstv and writes for The Atlantic, Slate, The New Yorker, The New Republic, etc.
Robert has invited me to meet w/his class next month @ Princeton.
BTW, all of the Dialogues with Dominic are in Dominic's new book "Dialogues with Dominic: A Chronicle of Inquiry and Awakening" along with dialogues that occurred after the posts, and dialogues of Dominic with the editor of the book, who i have also worked with for some time.
It's neat to hear the details of inquiry practice like this. Thanks to Dominic and you for sharing.
ReplyDeleteI am interested to know what Dominic means when he says that he does "X minute(s) of inquiry" because in my current experience of inquiry, I cannot say that I do a certain number of minutes of inquiry at a time. When I do inquiry, I ask the question and just let it go. It takes only a moment. If I consciously try to extend the moment after inquiry, I disengage from the "I" a bit, but my head also starts to ache from concentration. Is the extension of the inquiry to multiple minutes a natural sign of maturation of the practice? How does one do inquiry for multiple minutes at a time?
Thanks ahead of time!
All the best,
Jake
Hi Gary,
ReplyDeleteTrouble with the internet at home. Could you please post this response to Jake:
Hi Jake,
Great questions. The example I provided was a typical day. Multiple minutes of inquiry would better be described like this. Thoughts arise, ask who am I? the mind quiets for a minute or two, thoughts arise again, inquiry, mind is still for a few more minutes. IME this is very effortless. As practice deepened this has started to happen all on its own. Inquiry recently has just started to work on autopilot. I don't know why. Persistence has been the key. It works Jake.
Re: "consciously trying to extend the moment" There is no effort in this. Just ask the question the best you can when thoughts arise. Who am I? Do as you say. Let it go. Do not stop and you will be surprised.
re: " how does one do inquiry for multiple minutes at a time?"
It occurs as it occurs. Thoughts pop up. Perform inquiry. There is not an attempt to purposely try to do inquiry for x minutes but in my experience there is plenty of opportunity to practice. Just keep going on the best you can.
Hope this helps. Take care.
Dominic
Thanks Dominic for your reply. I am pretty sure Ramana Maharshi says in "Be As You Are" that at first effort is required, but as practice matures, it becomes effortless. This seems to be what you are experiencing.
ReplyDeleteI still need to make effort in my practice. If I asked every time a self-referential thought arose, I wouldn't be able to focus on anything else! Sometimes, I experience a particularly trenchant emotionally-laden, self-referential thought that sparks me to ask. I guess this is the same process that you speak of, it's just I have more thoughts of self than you! Haha!
Take care,
Jake
Have gotten a few comments on the comments on the bloggingheadstv.com "The Illusion of the Self" video.
ReplyDeleteThis was a "general" audience, not a "Buddhist", "meditative", or "nondual" audience, so what my "work/experience" is, is very different from what they are used to hearing. If you followed the string, i replied to several of them w/links of various sorts, and some of them, at least, appeared to move some.
The concept of it being possible to reduce the amount of self-reflective, "blah, blah" narrative is strange even to many Buddhist folk. There is just little/no teaching in mainstream Theravada and Tibetan Buddhism on the subject, so their perception is that it must not be possible.
The Zen and Dzogchen folk, on the other hand, recognize it. That was how i was passed by my two Zen Buddhist masters. As pointed out in previous blogposts, it is the core of Ramana Maharshi's teaching as well as the Bhagavad Gita, Patanjali's yoga and advaita.
Robert thanked me for the responses and for keeping the discussion going and felt it was important to move some folks' perspective. In the end, he did, after all, invite me to Princeton to speak to his class.
stillness
Thank you Dominic and Gary for sharing; I found this post helpful and very encouraging.
ReplyDeleteA few questions I have:
Dominic/Gary: How do you practice when your thoughts respond to self-inquiry instead of stilling (e.g., Who am I: I'm a human being with such and such qualities, responsibilities, relationships, possessions, etc. Who cares: My family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, community, etc.)?
Dominic/Gary: Are there any other self-inquiry questions that you have found useful in your practice?
Dominic: Out of curiosity, have you had any experience with yoga?
I appreciate your feedback.
Best,
--Nick
Hi Nick,
DeleteWhen you ask "Who am I?", or any of the self-inquiry questions, you will almost always get a stilling, but it may be short and easy to miss, before the "I" begins coming up w/intellectual answers. When this repeatedly happens, i recommend that folk change questions. i have never found "Who am I?" to be as useful as it often leads to the kinds of "answers" that you have gotten.
IME, much more useful, and less likely to lead to intellectual "I" responses, are "Where am I?", "When am I?", "What is this?", "From where did these thoughts arise?", and "Who hears?". i worked for many years w/"Where am I?" and "Who hears?". "Who hears?" is a well-known Zen practice.
i'll let Dominic answer the question on whether he had experience w/yoga. i've been doing it for many decades daily. If you check out the post "Using yoga postures w/self inquiry for nondual awakening", you'll see some guidelines and a link to a youTube video w/the flows being demonstrated.
Great you found the post useful.
stillness
gary
Hi Nick,
ReplyDeleteNo experience with yoga. . .Sticking with inquiry and being persistent without any expectations is what has helped so far. . .stick to it the best you can at all times. Trust in the practice.
Take Care,
Dominic
Thank you Gary and Dominic for your responses.
ReplyDeleteGary, I find it interesting to explore the commonalities, connections, and relationships between different traditions like Yoga/Vedanta self-inquiry and Zen koans. I particularly appreciate the powerful simplicity of teachings such as Ramana Maharshi and Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj's. Shortly after I started reading the book "I Am That," I felt like I no longer needed any more books on religion and spirituality, nor the many I had already collected and read over the years; Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj so well captures the essence of spiritual practice and expresses it in such a powerful way.
I have read your post and seen your video on yoga and really enjoyed them; I have a regular yoga practice and have started incorporating many of your suggestions into my practice. I've similarly come to think of asana as "steroids" for mindfulness as I've noticed that it can make a meditation practice, whatever the tradition, that much more accessible and effective. I also appreciate the simplicity with which you share you knowledge and experience and would love to see more posts specifically about yoga (e.g., Ramana Maharshi's teachings on developing a daily personal practice or sadhana).
In addition to self-inquiry and what's been discussed above, it would also be interesting to get your thoughts on Bhakti; I feel that this is something that is often overlooked or underrepresented in the West.
Best,
--Nick
Hi Nick,
DeleteGreat that you're finding the work useful.
After "the page turned", i went to one of my Zen masters and after being passed and told i could teach, asked how i could "function" w/this new reality, as it was so strange and there was no real guidance anywhere that spoke to what i was experiencing.
i was asked if i had read Nisargadatta's "I Am That", and i said i did not know his teachings. i got a copy; every word, every one, is absolutely true at the deepest level. my copy is underlined, highlighted, dog-eared, duct-taped, etc.
Ramana was my "main guy" and his "Who Am I?" was critical to making it all happen. my original copy is in tatters and tape. i give a copy to many folk i work with.
Am a huge fan of vinyasa/flow yoga w/meditative and breath awareness. As i said on the video, it you only have 10 minutes in your day for practice, do meditative vinyasas. Amazingly powerful. If folk are only doing sitting practice, they are missing a great tool which accesses places and "issues" that won't be reached any other way, IME. Tai chi also works if done the same way.
re bhakti, fully agree. See the blogpost "Can i reach "nondual awakening" through "devotion"? Is it the same as self-inquiry?". Bhakti is another powerful tool that many folk don't/can't access. Unless you have something that is "above" or "beyond" your I/ego that you consciously surrender to, it is very difficult, IME, to successfully deenergize the ego/I. my one Zen master had callouses on his forehead from bowing.
Trust this is useful.
stillness and surrender
gary
Dominic's experience and practice through out the day is giving confirmation that I am not crazy, and also providing inspiration to not leave any stone unturned. Thanks Gary and Dominic for sharing. I just stopped when Dominic said he has been doing self inquiry throughout the day at every possible opportunity...I will come back to read this blog when I need more inspiration to continue practising...
DeleteHi Talat khan,
DeleteAs mentioned in our earlier discussion, for the benefit of others, Dominic has a new book out, ""Dialogues with Dominic: A Chronicle of Inquiry and Awakening" which includes all of these dialogues as well as some which took place afterwards, and his dialogues with another folk i worked with who edited the book.
stillness