We have had three subjects in our "Dialogues with..." series - Dominic, Rikki and John, on our communication as we worked through their processes.
This is the last of five dialogues with Oskar from Barcelona, Spain, 45 years old, an IT Service Manager, rock climber and sumi-e painter who has meditated nearly every day for 8 years. The previous posts were "Dialogues with Oskar - Stressful situations, rock climbing, loneliness, isolation", "Dialogues with Oskar - Consciousness, resistance, spiritual identity, progress", "Dialogues with Oskar - new places, losing control, fewer Oskars, love" and "Dialogues with Oskar - Fewer thoughts, very still, 2D/3D perceptions, no doership".
Oskar's e-mail is "tao.te.kat at gmail" and blog - http://petitcalfred.wordpress.com.
This post takes up from the last one, edited from e-mails over the last 3+ years - oldest first. my comments are italicized. If anyone wants originals, let me know.
G
The process is proceeding "perfectly". "Letting go" keeps what is left of the various Oskars from trying to
come back in and stop anything. If
one manifested as a "doer" to make something
"better", that would feel "not OK" now, so it would fall away naturally.
The brain is "driving the bus", and
recognizes what needs to be done. The growing bliss, stillness and intermittent arrival of a very, very still state are indications of the progress it is making.
Remember that the brain is likely at work
almost continuously on this new OS during the day on this
as well as its regular jobs, trying iteration after iteration to see what
works best, and then during sleeping is hauling away the debris from all of the
reconstructive work.
The blogpost "Why do we sleep?..." gives the latest science on the cleanup and housekeeping the brain does while we sleep.
It is like building a new highway, space needs to be cleared
away for the new route. It is
constructed and tried for a while, until some new route is indicated, and more
work is done.
K
An interesting shift happened.
I was able to perceive the subtle thought that builds the idea of a
"me" looking for something.
It's just a shadow of an intention.
It was realized that true "seeing" is always non-dual. There is that subtle mental construction
acting as an observer, a "me", that is the real duality.
The perception switched to “non-dual” in a more stable way that keeps going on, always bright and at the same time absolutely close to me, but very alive. The sense of "me" as that subtle thought dropped away some hours later and more bliss is felt as a natural situation now.
I was able to perceive the subtle thought that builds the idea of a
"me" looking for something.
It's just a shadow of an intention.
It was realized that true "seeing" is always non-dual. There is that subtle mental construction
acting as an observer, a "me", that is the real duality.The perception switched to “non-dual” in a more stable way that keeps going on, always bright and at the same time absolutely close to me, but very alive. The sense of "me" as that subtle thought dropped away some hours later and more bliss is felt as a natural situation now.
Could be a minor change in the OS has been uploaded :)
G
An excellent understanding, seeing the "I" attempting
to arise, but being unable to pop up. Perhaps a pop-up blocker "uploaded” that blocks the “I”. If it does arise, the blocker shuts
it down again.
Important to realize that this is a subroutine. As
the OS improves, the pop-up may be eliminated, or become just a "click
on" app.
Great progress.
K
Everything keeps evolving to a new way of being...the
transparent subject is dissolving into nothing, into scenery and universe.
Bliss is appearing very often, for no reason, just for being alive, sometimes
subtle, sometimes quite strong. Love is
growing, stillness is growing.
Perception is non-dual whenever attention is focused. Thoughts are not a problem. They're just "nonsense talking" and are decreasing and decreasing.
Bliss is appearing very often, for no reason, just for being alive, sometimes
subtle, sometimes quite strong. Love is
growing, stillness is growing.Perception is non-dual whenever attention is focused. Thoughts are not a problem. They're just "nonsense talking" and are decreasing and decreasing.
The
degree of non-duality is variable.
Sometimes it's luminosity without labelling, but other times it's
deeper. I'm starting to really feel I am
the outer world, with nothing inside.
The mystery keeps growing. Sometimes I feel like I'm sinking into no-thingness and no-knowledge. Who am I? It's more mystery than ever, but I don’t much care :)
Just keep flowing with attention on...
G
The mystery keeps growing. Sometimes I feel like I'm sinking into no-thingness and no-knowledge. Who am I? It's more mystery than ever, but I don’t much care :)
Just keep flowing with attention on...
G
Everything is going very well.
The great Presence is absorbing what's left of the I/me/my
avatar, organically and naturally. As you are "sinking into no-thingness and
no-knowledge", you will find that your functional competency will not
decrease.
 |
| Oskar teaching rock climbing |
The apparent varying of nonduality is the brain refining its
networks. As it adjusts and improves, the state will
become more stable and energy efficient, just like when one learns to ride a
bicycle, write computer programs or rock climb.
The brain loves the Stillness, Presence and peace. It will continue to improve and use its
dopamine reward/pleasure system to ensure that this state is so pleasurable and
compelling that there will be no interest in moving out of it.
Just keep letting go, letting go, letting go...
K
Changes are happening quite fast.
Most of my time I'm seeing that luminosity or non-dual seeing, like the world is bright and absolutely intimate to me.
Most of my time I'm seeing that luminosity or non-dual seeing, like the world is bright and absolutely intimate to me.
Thought is present sometimes and sometimes not. It has lost some quality. Thought is now never about a "me" -
it has lost all of its self-referential quality. I'm absolutely untouched by them. Even if the
thought is saying something about "me", all its power is gone.Every negative sensation lasts for a really, really short time and leaves without traces and without importance.
I really feel I could finally say with conviction that "no one is really here". It's not an absence but a flowing and ever changing presence without any center.
Meditation is no more meditation, it's just sitting and being like the rest of the day but more focused and silent - little difference really. I keep doing it because it feels right...
Most of this is thanks to you, thank you.
G
Wonderful...It is now doing it all by itself. There is
nothing that needs to be done, or anyone left to do it.
 |
| Oskar's Sumi-e on my desk |
What a great surprise to have your fantastic, incredibly
"Zennish" art work arrive today. It really captures the
essence of stillness and the preciousness of this very moment, just now, and
now, and now... It is "present" on my desk...looking like it
has found its place...
Many gasshos for your thoughtfulness and creativity.
K
I feel so happy and blissful now, Gary. I sent you all my love and peace with the
painting.
As you said there seems to be no end to letting go and peace...
As you said there seems to be no end to letting go and peace...
For me you always will be part of my path, thank you, thank you :)
K
For Catalonia and Spain these are times of change. It's quite hard for some people, but there's
happiness from inside from the love for them. I can cry but feel OK at the same time,
because this crying is also an expression of love.
G
 |
| Budapest train station recent crisis |
As you say, "crying is also an expression of
love". The great value of this work is to recognize that while we
have no control over the external circumstances of our lives, we can have a great inner stillness, peace and love that is untouched.
At such times, those tears are not only tears of love, but of joy, surrender, and gratitude.
At such times, those tears are not only tears of love, but of joy, surrender, and gratitude.
K
Hi, Sensei.
You're right, there's no end to the dissolution of the subject. Day after day there's less "I" here as you learn how to let go of deeper and deeper layers of mind, subtler and subtler.
You're right, there's no end to the dissolution of the subject. Day after day there's less "I" here as you learn how to let go of deeper and deeper layers of mind, subtler and subtler.
The changes in the brightness
and quality of perception are amazing - very, very bright and alive with no
inside, no outside, just it. The world's there, but not there. you let go of perception, abandon the world
and you're in another dimension, just being... or simply you are not.It seems impossible to attach any craving or anger to a self even for minutes...no subject, no suffering, nothing to get attached to, no stories, no tales.
Thoughts nearly gone, just some
random ones here and there while working in the world. It's magic how can you function in the world,
transparent but better than before.
Gratitude to reality in the form of G. Weber. Thank you :)
Gratitude to reality in the form of G. Weber. Thank you :)
G
Yes, it is exactly as you describe, magnificent
in how it all dances so perfectly, so exquisitely down to the finest
detail. Just totally surrender, and then you are totally held. Everything happens perfectly, "all by
itself".
What manifests may not always at first appear to be a
"good" thing, but if one watches carefully, it is clear why it
happened. It always leads to deepening
the understanding, moving further into the stillness. Just when you
"thought" it couldn't get any deeper, any more "locked
down", it does exactly that.
K
Dear Sensei,
After awakening it was clear that it wasn’t liberation, but
now, after two and a half years of surrender, bliss is nearly always present,
and thought is totally self-liberated every moment.
 |
| Sumi-e by Oskar |
Love and compassion arise out of nowhere. When you have “nothing to do", when you "abandon every wish and rejection", what else is worth doing except helping others?
The universe is so close, that it's me. It feels absolutely intimate. "Me" has been spread all over reality.
Thank you :)
Love
Here is my interview on the VoiceAmerica Business channel - "The Brains of Leaders: Manage Your Thinking To Improve Your Effectiveness". It is already one of their Top 10 episodes.
Deeply enjoyed this dialogue series, Gary and Oskar.
ReplyDeleteI am halfway through the VoiceAmerica Business channel podcast and wanted to commend you on an extraordinarily clear and engaging conversation. It manages to be both introductory, substantive and transformational. Next to your wonderful nondual couch presentation, I think it the best articulation of contemporary nonduality I have heard.
Hi Glenn. Great that you found the Oskar series enjoyable. Oskar's diligence, openness, curiosity, and intellect made it unfold as it did. The most important message is that this really is possible.
DeleteThanks for the feedback on the VoiceAmerica Business channel podcast. i was really surprised at how the conversation unfolded, what we covered, and that others found the discussion so useful. Maureen is a great interviewer with many years in consulting, but was new to this area. Now we're into "what's next" and are meeting next week to investigate that.
stillness
Thanks for posting this Gary, I have found this conversation and very beneficial (in addition to your blog and book "Happiness Beyond Thought"). I can strongly relate to the early stages of Oskar's path - with occasional and temporary dropping away of self - and so seeing his evolution and stabilization is encouraging. Recently in particular, I have learned to trust more and more the sense of "just knowing" without needing to refer to thought for context and a vantage point. Recently the questions "what is aware", "to whom or what is this appearing to" and "where am I" have had much traction. Thanks again!
ReplyDeleteHi Unknown,
DeleteGreat that you found Oskar's story, as well as HBT, so useful. It is a big step to learn to trust the sense of "just knowing" as it moves one out of the endless mental self-referential thoughts about "well, yes, but on the other hand", etc.
The questions that have manifested for you, and that are getting traction, are some great ones. "To whom is this appearing" is right out of Ramana Maharshi's "Who am I?", and "Where am I?" was one of my staples.
you didn't mention videos, of which there are > 100 now on my channel @ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMSnyxnteEx7IOPIFkfh3og on all aspects of the work. There are five "NonDual Awakening Meditation" guided meditations like "NonDual Awakening Meditation - Where am I?" @ https://youtu.be/dmtGdoh7xHk .
As you have likely discovered the blog is a Google platform and is keyword searchable. If you haven't found it yet, "Feeling Your Way to NonDual Awakening" has been a useful blogpost for many folk.
If you look under "Show More" in any of my youTube videos, you'll see links to other books, website, interviews, etc. All of my "stuff" is available free in some format.
Best w/your practices.
stillness
Thanks Gary! This is all proving to be very helpful.
DeleteI have a couple of questions for you. It seems like Oskar's path has been a gradual letting go and decrease in the amount of self referencing. I was wondering how similar his experience is to what your's was. My understanding was that your "big shift" was quite sudden and unexpected. I also think I remember you saying in an interview with Robert Wright that there wasn't that much noticeable effect from your practice before that in terms of shifting core perception. Is this correct? If so, what do you think accounts for the difference between your's and Oscars process. In particular, why has his perceptual change been gradual while your's was sudden (after many years of practice). In your teaching of students, what path seems to be the most common?
Thanks again!!
i really have no idea what happened on my path as far as progress. i had a big initial opening reading a Zen poem, which showed me that "no thoughts" was possible and that my brain could produce all sorts of realities, so i set off into Zen.
Deletei had many experiences, which i really can't recall any more, as all of my teachers said that they were an impediment and to forget about them, which i did.
Although i had two excellent Zen teachers, i had few opportunities to spend a lot of time with them as i was working very long weeks in complicated jobs with lots of travel, responsibility, a wife and two kids and little/no vacation While they were very supportive of my self-inquiry approach, they hadn't done it themselves, so couldn't really coach me.
i did my 20,000 hrs of practice over 25 years, w/o any coaching or feedback from anyone who had ever done this process. i really had no idea what i was doing.
It would have been very helpful if i had a coach to tell me that this was the "right" result, or practice, and/or if it was dangerous, pointless, or likely to result in permanent mental disability. i had no clue, so i made lots of mistakes, went up blind alleys, "wasted" lots of time, etc.
As far as the "big shift" being "quite sudden and unexpected", it was really a "non-event" phenomenologically, just like a leaf falling from your hand. i really had no idea how close i was, as i had no idea what i was doing other than trying to stop self-referential thought, and end my suffering.
i believed i was stuck as i had surrendered everything, every attachment, but i had no idea what to do next that hadn't been tried, so i totally let go and it happened.
Thankfully, Oskar and other folk i work with are manifesting a process which is generally like Oskar's, although they are all different. Coaching from someone who has been there and done that and made all the mistakes, makes it much easier, less frightening, and more likely to be successful.
stillness
Thanks for your response Gary! I definitely think I relate to Oskar's gradual letting go approach. I can see a clear and smooth path from where I am to where he is, and eventually to where you are...I think we are all benefiting from your experience and guidance, making the path easier for the next generation.
DeleteHi Gary and Oskar, I have been very moved by your process together and the layers of letting go Bliss State that continue to unfold. For me it has felt like a birthing process as the self-referential thinking patterns continue to arise from more interwoven complex and subtle networks. Allowing them to arise is often painful in the beginning, but am always grateful for the layers of awarenesses that come when the networks become known. I keep sitting with them and watching them dissolve into stillness. The Bliss State feels as if it is right below the surface, waiting to arise in full glory. It sits in the cells and heart, and as the thoughts continue to dissolve, resides in the stillness of the moment. I am finding that the painful experiences don't last and that time between them and coming back into equilibrium is less and less. It almost feels as if I could open up something in the brain to relieve the pressure from the thinking that the ego would just dissolve into a puddle on the floor. I keep meditating, chanting, sitting and waiting for something a shift to occur. It feels good to share the process that I am experiencing on this blogpost. Thank you for providing this space, Gary.
ReplyDeleteIn Peace, Laura
Hi Laura,
DeleteIt is wonderful to see how clearly, perceptively and sensitively you unfold the story of your own awakening process. your deep honesty, integrity and self-reflection allow a really useful description, complete with metaphors and images to emerge.
you have been such a delight to work with, and such wonderful fruit is emerging.
This really is great work.
stillness
gary
Hi all x I like to read of others meditative process as I too have now been meditating daily for a year or so, I love it and am so grateful of it as a life line that's allowing me to arise from a chaotic life of addiction. I use a mantra and have recently been drawn spontaneously to putting attention between the eybrows which does take me to a calm meditative state quicker. I get a little confused when I read like above about sitting with thoughts that arise, when iv been taught to let go of all thoughts and images at the time of meditation?, and return to the mantra.
ReplyDeleteThis morning after quickly reaching calmness with the mantra, I turned my attention to the brow chakra, i then spent an hour where my whole body was kinda vibrating, pleasurable but not blissful as thoughts where still present but with little power of distraction, and without realising my face was pointing upwards rather than slightly bowed. Often I wish someone could tell me of any progress I may be making, of course I try not to expect but sometimes thats difficult. A feature of my journey is work with the shadow self, like I'm being broke down, feeling empty though painful and humbling I can feel something better slowly arising. I have had experience of my thoughts being not me, and some days feeling an overwhelming presence of abundance in patience, clarity and humility, but then it's like the rug being pulled from under me as the following day I feel awful, ie distracted with no patience whatsoever and aprehension around everything, so I can become very confused with the whole process. However to think that one day I may reach a place of uninterrupted presence, calmness and that feeling of abundance, determines me to persevere, some times I just wish someone could tell me where I'm at with it all, as I can't always find answers in literature. Don't get me wrong I feel good more than I don't and often I feel I maybe more advanced than I realise, the only counsel around this I generally get off long term mediators I know is "keep it simple and let go of everything", It just seems not enough for me at times, I want to know more!! Anyway iv just spontaneously wrote this after reading the above posts, I hope I'm in the right place... love x
Hi Colm,
DeleteYes, it is "the right place", or you wouldn't be here. Would be most useful for you to read my first book "Happiness Beyond Thought", free download @ http://preview.tinyurl.com/bslfll8, and then go to my youTube channel @ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMSnyxnteEx7IOPIFkfh3og and listen to the videos in the "Practices" and "Guided Meditation" playlists.
When you've done this then, get my e-mail address which is under "About" on my website "happiness-beyond-thought.com", and e-mail me with any questions you have.
stillness
Gary (and Oskar),
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for this blog. Very helpful for me and it answers lots of questions. Thank you both so much for sharing - it is very encouraging for us on the path! Jean
Hi Jean S.
DeleteGreat that you found the video so helpful and encouraging. Oskar deserves the credit for what emerged and for being so open and willing to share it with others.
Without his content and engagement, the most recent book, Evolving Beyond Thought, would never have emerged. It is full of his words and wonderful Sumi-e paintings, including the beautiful cover.
stillness