Q. In our personal
exchanges, and elsewhere in your blog, it’s been stated that the ego wants to
“fight back” against its own death. That’s it’s “afraid” of dissolving.
"The Moral Animal" is such an "important" book that it was one of three books that the actor playing Neo, in The Matrix, was advised to read in preparation for the role and the famous choice of whether to take the "red pill".
Those included were worried about losing the pleasures of their many possessions, changed relationships to friends and family, desires for all sorts of sensual
pleasures, and attachments to core beliefs they lived by.
This "battle" determines how far the work proceeds. If the "antis" are strong enough to get folk to stop their practices, which happens to many folk, that is as far as it will go.
Michael Gazzaniga UC Santa Barbara |
Roger Sperry Nobel Prize for Split Brain Work |
In its terror of no longer being needed it grows sharper teeth and longer claws
and starts cussing like a demon to stop the process. Which makes it seems we’re
describing an entity - a thing that, although an illusion, “wants” to be
alive.
So this is my question: If the ego was just a code,
simply neurons bound together a certain way, it wouldn’t grow stronger at being
dissolved, right? It would just atrophy like any other muscle.
G. Re the
"ego" growing stronger with sharper teeth and longer claws, remember
that the "ego/I" isn't one entity, it is thousands of
entities/constituencies that may, or may not be involved in certain
decisions/choices/activities.
Important findings on how the brain operates in these
situations came from the “split
brain” Nobel Prize-winning research done by Roger Sperry and Michael Gazzaniga on folk who had their
left and right halves disconnected by severing their corpus callosum to
alleviate epileptic seizures.
Sperry's and Gazzaniga's clever experiments showed that different parts of the brain had very different functions and could operate discretely including generating false stories "explaining" their strange behaviors.
Evolutionary psychology extended this
understanding to conceptualizing the brain functions for decision-making as
being “modular”. Robert Wright, featured in several blogposts, wrote the “The Moral Animal: Why We Are The Way We Are” which is strongly recommended as it created the field.
"The Moral Animal" is such an "important" book that it was one of three books that the actor playing Neo, in The Matrix, was advised to read in preparation for the role and the famous choice of whether to take the "red pill".
Wright explains in his “Why
Buddhism is True: The Science and Philosophy of Meditation and Enlightenment” how these modules function:
1. They aren’t in physical compartments
3. There are “cheater detection”/”who can you
trust?” modules
4. The modules are fluidly interactive, lack
obedience and harmony and sometimes collaborate, and sometimes compete, even
fiercely.
5. There is no hierarchy. It is a “free-for-all, self-organizing system”.
(For full disclosure, "i" am in this book.)
(For full disclosure, "i" am in this book.)
This work was extended by Griskevicius and Kenrik in “Fundamental Motives: How Evolutionary Needs Influence Consumer Behavior”.
Decisions, like "should we fight this?" or "let it proceed?", didn't manifest until this self-inquiry process started to upset things.
However, once "self-inquiry" started, many entities saw that it was going to seriously threaten their existence and functions. Concern rapidly spread and modules were recruited on a wide range of issues.
However, once "self-inquiry" started, many entities saw that it was going to seriously threaten their existence and functions. Concern rapidly spread and modules were recruited on a wide range of issues.
Angry "anti-self inquiry" mob |
A huge band of angry, frightened “anti” modules/constituencies
were recruited against this self-inquiry process.
Against this angry mob, the “pro-self inquiry” constituency,
at the beginning, had little to offer in the way of better pleasures and hence got few recruits.
Asking “Where/when/what/who am I?”, throughout
the day or in sitting meditation, there were brief periods of quiet from the
endless “blah, blah” after a question was asked, but for several weeks, few pleasures.
However, what is often misunderstood is that the important result is the brief "space/break/stop" (SBS) after the unanswerable self-inquiry question.
The massive "off-line"/"elephant" part of the brain with 500,000 times the capability of the "on line"/"rider" part (see blogpost "Right-sizing your "I", understanding confirmation bias") sees this SBS as a break from the usual chaos, and reaalllyyy likes it.
As 99.9% of what goes on is done by the "elephant", including generating pleasure with its neurochemistry, it begins to pursue it. Every SBS is data to begin changing its networks to spend more time in that space.
Doing self-inquiry periodically during a busy day provides a sharp contrast with prevailing chaos and has high "data value". No SBS is wasted, and every "aha", or nondual experience makes a permanent change, as shown in studies in the blogpost "What is an 'E(e)nlightenment experience?...a new scientific, secular model".
Elephant shown 100,000 X too small |
However, what is often misunderstood is that the important result is the brief "space/break/stop" (SBS) after the unanswerable self-inquiry question.
The massive "off-line"/"elephant" part of the brain with 500,000 times the capability of the "on line"/"rider" part (see blogpost "Right-sizing your "I", understanding confirmation bias") sees this SBS as a break from the usual chaos, and reaalllyyy likes it.
As 99.9% of what goes on is done by the "elephant", including generating pleasure with its neurochemistry, it begins to pursue it. Every SBS is data to begin changing its networks to spend more time in that space.
Doing self-inquiry periodically during a busy day provides a sharp contrast with prevailing chaos and has high "data value". No SBS is wasted, and every "aha", or nondual experience makes a permanent change, as shown in studies in the blogpost "What is an 'E(e)nlightenment experience?...a new scientific, secular model".
After a few months, “life” feels different, less
stressful, more relaxed, more pleasurable as dopamine manifests. Self-referential, “blah, blah” is less
“sticky”, thought strings are shorter and less
emotionally-charged. Attitudes to others are more open.
The "elephant's" assessment of pleasure/pain for all activities, reflecting the 3 to 5X stronger weighting to pain for evolutionary reasons, is shifting significantly and more dopamine goes to the "pros". The “pros” recruit more modules and the “anti” group is not as overwhelming as it had been.
The "elephant's" assessment of pleasure/pain for all activities, reflecting the 3 to 5X stronger weighting to pain for evolutionary reasons, is shifting significantly and more dopamine goes to the "pros". The “pros” recruit more modules and the “anti” group is not as overwhelming as it had been.
"Pro self-inquiry" recruiting poster |
With several more months of self-inquiry and “letting go”
practices, significant changes become more evident, and the “pros” recruit more modules. The "antis" become more troubled.
As the self-inquiry work goes deeper, it gets into "don't go there" traumas, deep fears and strong fundamental beliefs and conditioning. Beliefs like "I am my body, thoughts, and mind", and "I am in control and have free will", are challenged.
The “antis” fight back recruiting many powerful new modules that hadn't been challenged before. The “pros” struggle to continue the self-inquiry and letting go processes. Any fall-off or lost interest in self-inquiry invites an attack.
The “antis” fight back recruiting many powerful new modules that hadn't been challenged before. The “pros” struggle to continue the self-inquiry and letting go processes. Any fall-off or lost interest in self-inquiry invites an attack.
This "battle" determines how far the work proceeds. If the "antis" are strong enough to get folk to stop their practices, which happens to many folk, that is as far as it will go.
Antis vs Pros |
However, the elephant hasn't been asleep. To work against the "antis" and get to its goal, it releases more dopamine for more pleasure with SBSs, particularly longer ones, strengthening the "pros".
If practices continue, the common report is "It's clear that i'm no longer running things...the brain is doing it all by itself".
If practices continue, the common report is "It's clear that i'm no longer running things...the brain is doing it all by itself".
Now, since it is fully in charge, the elephant generates endogenous opioids with the dopamine, so there is no inclination or possibility to "return" (or "un-take" the Red Pill) from this "supreme abode" as cited in the Bhagavad Gita on pages 20 and 21 in Dancing Beyond Thought. It is also where "Bliss is the primary measure" as the Ribhu Gita says many times in Evolving Beyond Thought.
As most of you know, none of this is under your "control" as to whether you do, or don't do this work, as it is all predetermined, and everything and everyone is the Field of Universal Consciousness/"Her". This work is all about letting-go into that full understanding and recognizing that She does it all.
However, perhaps this post will, as happened with the cognitive neuroscience around awakening and the Default Mode Network, alleviate the anxiety that can arise around not knowing "what's going on down there!!!?".
BTW, i was "impersonated" on Facebook, which was caught by a friend who notified FB, and they quickly removed the false profile. As i've heard, folk have been "friending" accounts just to make this possible, so beware.
Gurudev!
ReplyDeleteWatching this inner battle between Team self-inq. vs Team blah blah where Team self-inq. slowing getting stronger and taking over is the most humbling, relieving and rewarding experience ever!!
Gratitude to Her as She does everything
Hi arun,
ReplyDeleteYes, it is so much easier and "lighter" to recognize that She does everything.
There is a wonderful quote from Ramana Maharshi:
She knows what is best and when and how to do it.
Leave everything entirely to Her.
Hers is the burden: you have no longer any cares.
All your cares are Hers.
Such is surrender.
stillness and letting go
gary
ahhhhhh rest!
DeleteHi SurrenderElla. Yes, indeed...
DeleteIt is also important to remember to repeat it when you are highly-stressed in some situation. The stress arises because "I" believe "I" should/must be able to fix this problem, but am failing because "I" haven't/can't.
IME, repeating it in those situations relieves the stress and anxiety, acknowledges it's all Her, and allows a truly creative and innovative solution to arise.
stillness
Trust this is useful.
gary
HI Gary,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the post! I appreciate your ongoing efforts to explain the neuroscientific correlates for this experience of spiritual awakening and transcending this idea of being an individual self. It help depersonalize the process, which I think is helpful, since the "anti-modules" seem to thrive and recruit more when there's a sense that this is a personal process, something that's happening to 'me'. It's just the brain evolving to a more adaptive configuration for our current environment and civilization.
Gratitude and love for your ongoing work.
Guillaume
Dear Gary, A question - Is it possible to become addicted to self inquiry/spiritual word to an extent it becomes detrimental to one's life? I feel a strong urge to practice self inquiry/rest in the Self as often as is possible, I don't feel like doing much else. Socialising isn't as attractive, working on my career doesn't seem important, my desires seem trivial and don't have much pull anymore. After an intense period of self inquiry, of a month or so, the process doesn't seem as attractive/joyful and my worldly desires return. But after spending a few days on these, their pull disappears and the strong urge to perform self inquiry returns. I feel like I'm caught between two worlds!
ReplyDeletestillness
Hi Gary, this doesn't have to do with this blogpost, but I had a question. While my ultimate goal is to awaken, one does have to continue living while this 10k+ hour awakening process is going on. What would your recommendation be on how to make decisions that are not ego-driven?
ReplyDeleteHi Jennifer,
Delete1) On an on-going basis, the self-inquiry and letting go exercises make permanent, irreversible changes in your neural structure and if you're watching carefully, improve your well-being and functionality, including in your effectiveness in "making a living".
2) As this blogpost points out, "you", as the egos/Is/"riders" really don't make any decisions, it is all done "off line" in the elephant continuously, whether you're aware of it or not.
Trust this is useful.
stillness
May I ask about something which often baffles me (and a lot of other people too) about people who are awakened, which is that despite losing a sense of self the language of self continues - I want this, I feel that, I think this etc.
ReplyDeleteOften in the same sentence an awakened person will say they are free of self and then use language based on self.
I wonder - is this a module that's just going through the motions because there is no way to shut it up ? ie. it's an automatic habit of referring to a self that isn't there any more ?
Or is it a deliberate but paradoxical choice, but something of a charade - you have to talk like that to negotiate a world of people with selves ?
I sometimes wonder if awakening is something like blind sight, in which seeing happens but it's not conscious - and in awakening the self still is there but it's just not consciously known ? That is, it's all there and still working, but not conscious anymore to the awakened ? Like a dog let off it's leash - you don't feel the pull anymore but it's still doing it's thing ?
John
Hi John,
DeleteWhen the page turned, there was just being fully present, like Ramana Maharshi did, and let that energy communicate the message. This went on for several years, until folk asked me to lead a little Zen group, which couldn't "get it" without some communication.
Many different approaches of not using "I" were tried, but since virtually all of our species' languages are subject-doing-object based, any communication had a subject, implicitly or explicitly. There are a few aboriginal languages and some cases in Japanese, which supposedly don't have a subject, but all the rest have a subject.
It isn't anything like "blind sight". The "self" really can be deconstructed, after a lot of self-inquiry and "letting go" practices, the extent of which can be accurately measured by the amount of "self-referential" internal narrative. If it exists, there is still a "self" there.
However, if other folk need to understand the way through to the "no self" state, they need to be communicated with in a "subject-doing-object" language they understand.
Trust this is useful.
stillness
Gary, could you please elaborate when you say "any fall-off or lost interest in self-inquiry invites an attack."
ReplyDeleteI notice that the egos are sometimes successful at getting me to skip a day of sitting practice by using desire for sensual objects. It's happened a handful of times over the past three months. Sometimes I worry about how damaging this is, but I know it's all out of my hands anyway since everything is preordained. Maybe some info would be helpful.
Hi Anonymous,
DeleteIt is a continuous battle between the two groups. There is no "me" skipping a day and being pulled off into desire.
The "antis" found a diversion in sensual objects that is large enough to overcome the band of "pros" for a while. Perhaps the "pros" will be unable to overcome this, perhaps not.
The "antis" will continue to search for diversions to overcome any good benefits that the "pros" are realizing from their practices. How that shift goes is, as you say, predetermined.
It is fundamentally a battle between the desire to be liberated from suffering and the fear and distractions that will be generated to stop it.
Trust this is helpful.
Your comment about there being no me is not what I expected at all. Thank you.
DeleteI think I see a little better how ego strengthens it's self through creating problems while framing it's self as me and the body or mind.
In some way this is a hilarious and incredulous situation. In one moment it's clear that this is a process about (removing) "me" but it's not being done by "me." But somehow the only way I can frame things is that "I" need to do the practices, even though they clearly happen all by themselves.
So there's an ego there that thinks it's doing practices. This feels very uncomfortable in my abdomen.
Not really...there are many, many egos/Is creating problems while there are many, many other egos/Is supporting the process being done.
DeleteIf you watch scans of the brain, you'll see that there is no single "me" anyplace...there are many different ad-hoc assemblies of different neural regions created for a particular problem or situation. That is how the "doing" happens.
The concept of an "hilarious and incredulous situation" only arises in your "rider". That is the "ego there that thinks it's doing practices".
The "elephant", which is doing all of this, has no such contradiction or concern.
That conflict, created by your "rider" is what feels "very uncomfortable". At some level, the "rider" knows he is a "fraud" who isn't doing any of this.
Trust this is useful.
Your patience is appreciated. If I understand correctly, there is no me because what appears to be me are just different rider modules all using the same name and all taking credit for being the body or mind. Neurologically, there’s no one ego because what’s happening is different combinations of neurons are firing during the creation of self-referential thought. And since the brain is highly plastic, I’m guessing that each time a group of neurons fire the supporting synaptic interconnections change. Therefore, it’s basically impossible to get one ego to appear twice. It’s always slightly or very different modules arising.
ReplyDeleteSo, when ever I see a conclusion or worry or fear or conflict or craving etc, it’s just a rider module. And, if I understand correctly careful attention to the feelings produced by those modules will help the elephant reorganize for what’s most peaceful, since it’s always running a comparison between pain/pleasure. This reorganization is facilitated by self-inquiry during meditation and daily SBS which provide something different than thinking. And, even the short non-dual breaks with no apparent pleasure are still better to the elephant than the pain of untrue self-referential thinking?
Either way, with a pro or anti module arising, it’s all a process happening without any rider module controlling it, correct? I’m curious if the SBS needs to be long enough for the discomfort of the last thought to fade away in order to be helpful.
Hi Anonymous,
DeleteYes, that is generally correct.
It is also important to remember that the pain/pleasure comparison overweights the pain 3 or 5 times x the pleasure for evolutionary survival, so it's very difficult to find a pleasure that is worth it. That's why nonduality "wins"...it has virtually no pain, as well as having the highest level of pleasure.
Also important to remember that "feelings" are the "elephant's" way of communicating to the "rider" and that the "elephant" has 500,000 X the processing capacity of the "rider" and huge storage capacity. That is why it all happens without the "rider's" controlling any of it.
In general as long as there are self-referential thoughts, it is important to continue the self-inquiry and "letting go" practices on whatever stories arise. They are helpful whether or not the "last thought" has faded away. The more diligent one is with them, the longer the break between thoughts, and the less problematic and energy-charged whatever thoughts or stories that arise will be.
Trust this is useful.
stillness
Hi Gary! Arun is a good friend of mine and made me read your work. Now I understand why. My disease is I am compelled to give people advice to improve their life. Tried to find out the root cause and it seems at childhood when we lost our home, my mind thought I need to help improve people’s life so they kine me. Now I mastered running, meditation, healthy food habits and try to push on people. Any medicine for me?
ReplyDeleteHi Omar, you are clearly off to a good start with your guidance from Arun on asking "Where am I?", shifting your diet to more fruits and vegetables and getting some cardio.
DeleteIt is also great that you found the "root cause" arose from losing your home when you were young and now want to help others. As you do this, keep asking "Where am I?" and doing some letting go exercises like those described in the blogposts "surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" and "letting go of your attachments to awaken - why/how/when".
There are likely to be many stories around losing your home, so try to get them into simple, straightforward sentences that reflect how they personally impact you "now", so that they can be directly worked on.
As you work to help others, it is very important to be completely open and present for what they are saying they need, not what you believe they need as it is often not correct.
Also strongly encourage you to explore the rest of my material which is under "Show More" in any of my youTube videos, all free in some format. There is a lot there so it can be useful to use the techniques described in the blogpost "Feeling Your Way to Nondual Awakening" to see what "feels" right for you at the time.
Trust this is useful.
stillness
Great! I shall keep working on them! Moment by moment.
ReplyDeleteHi, Gary.
ReplyDeleteI've enjoyed this article a good deal, and plan on plumbing the depths of its subject matter further by reading more of your articles.
Three questions if I may: 1. Is there a scientific reason I should be concerned that since I've spent much more time over the long haul using mindfulness and shikantaza -type approaches, that I would be undoing my progress by doing more self-enquiry, or by combining approaches further (because of competing neural modules or some other reason).
2. Have there been studies which compare/contrast the effectiveness of different contemplative approaches when it comes to silencing the "blah, blah."
3. Is the referential thinking involved in schizo-affective disorder or schizophrenia the same as the self-referential thinking that you characterize as "blah,blah," and, if so, do you think that contemplative practices could help as an adjunct or complementary therapy to professional help with such issues.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteOn 1.there is no problem moving on to "more self-inquiry" from the mindfulness approaches. They do work in different ways "scientifically", i.e. "mindfulness" strengthens the "egos/Is" and "self-inquiry" weakens them as this post discussed.
The video "Does Mindfulness Lead to Persistent Nonduality" and its 145 comments will give you a comparison. "Combining approaches" does not work, although many folk come to self-inquiry after mindfulness practices.
The scientific research on mindfulness is discussed in detail in the blogpost "mindfulness meditation - religious vs secular - does it work? - new research". Only 10 of 47 trials were unbiased and the claims on efficacy were well above what was actually found.
On 2. the only in-depth direct comparison between different contemplative approaches on "blah, blah" is detailed in the article "The Neuroscience of Suffering - And Its End" @ https://psychologytomorrowmagazine.com/jeff-warren-neuroscience-suffering-end/ in Psychology Tomorrow.
This work has also been reviewed in detail in Robert Wright's NYTimes bestseller, "Why Buddhism Is True: The Science and Philosophy of Meditation and Enlightenment" in which i am featured.
As you will see, the real-time fMRI showed conclusively that self-inquiry was the most effective contemplative approach at reducing or stopping "blah, blah".
On 3. there has been much discussion on psychological classification of the outcomes of contemplative practices. The blogposts "Are our mystical experiences psychotic?...key indicators" and "Is nondual awakening a mental disorder? Is it schizophrenia?" discuss this in detail.
Trust this is useful.
stillness
Hi Gary,
ReplyDeleteI have just discovered you and your blogspot, when your video on pre-determination popped up in my Youtube feed.
I have been studying astrology for 35 years and recently began looking at the rocks in the asteroid belt out there between Mars and Jupiter. Many of these rocks carry everyday names like yours, yes there is an asteroid Gary and even an asteroid Weber. So after I watched your video, I checked where these two asteroids were in the sky and where they were when I was born. There were a number of mathematical synchronicities, between those two asteroids and my natal birthchart eg. The asteroid Weber at 3Pisces13 was in a 60deg aspect to my natal Moon at 3Taurus15, while the asteroid Gary at 7Scorpio18 was in a wide conjunction to my natal Sun at 9Scorpio02.
So finding you on the internet is probably an equivalent event to Ramana's drinking a cup of water and yet this event was in some way synchronised with the moment I was born.
I am finding these similar synchronicities all the time with telephone calls, texts, strangers booking readings etc. It really seems like a way to watch Einstein's "pied piper" in action.
Thanks for the opportunity to share this
All the best
Sarito